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ThinkingApe asked a series of questions: I addressed the first one separately, as it merits that attention: the rest below:
What kind of a friend(Faith) deranges human values so completely for the sake of obedient followers?
In talking about values: In a previous comment on a recent article, Richard cypher asked? How do we know that something is beautiful? Is it a figment of the imagination? I’d like to run with that idea. How have we arrived at what is a value? Who determines it? Who has determined it historically? Why are they different as you cross cultural lines? What makes good, good? What makes beautiful, Beautiful? What makes wrong, Wrong? Because I know this, everyone debating on this forum found “good” here before they were born, everyone debating here in this forum found “Beauty” and “value” here before they were born. Nobody can claim to have been the Author of Values.
So, where do they come from? Since the accusation is that God has deranged them? Did God derange values or have we rebelled against God’s values and deranged them to suit our own selfish ends? Who is the deranger of values?
But on this question: Let me ask you ThinkingApe a beautiful question, ignore the whole article, just answer this question: You said: “What kind of a friend deranges human values so completely for the sake of obedient followers? Here is my question to you: What kind of society would we have if everyone was obedient to the God of the bible? Please answer sincerely, exercising what you like to champion: Logic and reason.
Next question by TA:
We have Catholics and Protestants; Muslims and Jews; Hindus and Buddhists; Sunnis and Shiites at each others throats. What type of friend(Faith) divides humanity into groups and inspires them to war on each other for thousands of years? The friend’s name is Sin. Do not confuse him with God. He is very real, very tangible, a permanent help…you will find him wherever you experienced death in your life…divorce, he was there, lost temper, he was there, adultery, he celebrated with you, tax evasion, he smiled from ear to ear…
However, what I appreciate about this question is the presupposition that there is only One God! That inspite what these different groups are claiming, there is one Champ at the top of the food chain who will one day reveal who was right and who was wrong. I do appreciate that assumption. But obviously I abhor the notion that God prescribes war, enmity, hatred between people. We will still discuss the Genocide of the bible…Don’t worry! I am not ignorant of that.
What kind of friend(faith) pretends to know things that they could never possibly know? In a civil society, a doctor must have a good reason to prescribe medicine; an engineer must have grounds for thinking that a bridge will provide safe passage. –
I’m not sure this one requires an Answer! – In a civil society a theologian must have good reason to prescribe the gospel to people. Just like the engineer and the doctor. What is it about the role of the Pastor that is offensive in principal to the role of the engineer? Each is his specialist and each has his domain of expertise. Each should remain in his field and serve his neighbour.
But the question has got to do with knowledge. And the presupposition is that knowledge can only be attained through traditional means. My question is why have you limited the acquisition of knowledge to the sciences? How do you know that knowledge cannot be attained through other means? How could you possible know when what you use to know what you know does not venture outside what is uses to know, by definition, it cannot. So how do you know? TA at best has drawn a line at The Senses. And this is where we go wrong. The dismissal is that you cannot know through Faith! The Christian response is that, I know by faith. Knowing happens post faith. The assumptions is that knowing requires evidence, specific kind of evidence. Unfortunately we must agree to disagree here because I know(pardon the pun) there is no movement on this point. I can provide ample evidence…you will dismiss it. FYI: Do a concordance search of the word “Know” in the bible…then ask the question, what is the relationship between knowledge and faith?
What kind of a friend(faith) consistently excuses gross violations of the rational standards of accountability?
This is just a plain lie. Faith in Christ has never ever excused gross violations of the rational standards of accountability? Not to mention the more obvious problem with that statement being, What is rational? What is the standard? Who determines what is rational? Who sets the standard? How do we unify as a people outside the worldview that we are designed in the Image of God to walk in the light and to love each other as Christ Loved the Church? How? And how many have tried and failed? It is a dead end. Because of our friend we got introduced to above called Sin. People are so diverse and different in their convictions and passions.. We all know that it is impossible to make everybody happy…I’d love to take that thought further…
It is impossible to build a peaceful society in agreement with a given worldview without revolt, rebellion and revolution outside the belief that he God of the bible spoke the universe into being.
