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Looking for Satan in the bible.
My project is simple. I have been unable to experience the presence of God. However I am told it is easy to come under the influence of Satan. If I can experience Satan, then God must exist. (Link hereunder for my project in detail)
Christians appear to be confused about Satan, in part (II), (link hereunder), I examined some of these contradictory positions held by Christians regarding Satan, only to have more confusing comments posted.
I am having a lot of trouble trying to find Satan, or even understand who he is supposed to be. Unfortunately this article is a little long as some scripture has been quoted for your convenience.
The common belief regarding the biblical Satan, or variations thereof, is basically that Satan is an angel that became a fallen angel and now tempts man, some claim that Satan now rules our planet.
The main scriptures given as a reference for this “fall” are Isaiah 14; 12-14 and Ezekiel 28:13-15.
Isaiah 14: 12-14: “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High”.
The 'morning star' is translated 'Lucifer' in the Vulgate translation of the Bible made by Jerome in Latin. Jerome also uses 'Lucifer' as a description of Christ, as the 'morning star' mentioned in Revelation. 'Lucifer' in its strict meaning is 'bearer of the light’. The Latin translation only appears in bibles in Isaiah.
The N.I.V. and other modern versions have set out the text of Isaiah chapters 13-23 as a series of burdens on various nations. Isaiah 14: 4 sets the context of the verses we are reading here: “Thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon...” The prophecy is therefore about the human king of Babylon, who is described as “Lucifer”, on his fall: “they that see thee shall...consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble...?” (v. 16). Therefore Lucifer is clearly defined as a man in Isaiah.
In verses 9 and 10 we read, “All kings of the nations...shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? Art thou become like unto us?” This Lucifer was therefore a king like any other king.
Lucifer, the devil was an invention of Christians, which started a few hundred years after Christ died. Origen, the very unorthodox Church Father probably started this myth. Nowadays Origen would be labelled a heretic by Christians if you read some of his beliefs.
H.A. Kelly, a leading historian wrote, "It was not until post-Biblical times that Lucifer was associated with Satan, or that Satan was thought to have been cast out of heaven before the creation of Adam and Eve, or that Satan had some connection with Adam and Eve". All New Testament references to light-bringer', heosphoros in Greek, the dawn-bringer / Venus, the morning star, are positive, and all refer to Jesus (2 Pet. 1:19; Rev. 2:28; 22:16).
The other Christian reference for the fall of Satan is Ezekiel 28:13-15: Which reads “Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius…………..the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou are the anointed cherub that covereth and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee”.
The context of this verse is a prophecy about the King of Tyre; the preceding chapter is an oracle against Tyre, and this chapter is about the King of Tyre.
We find that the city of Tyre and the King of Tyre are described in similar terms, e.g. "perfect in beauty" (you can compare 27:3 and 28:12; 27:16,17 with 28:13; 27:33 with 28:16). The passage plainly speaks of the King of Tyre, not anything that happened at the beginning of the world.
In verse 2 of this chapter we read, “thou art a man”; this passage also says that this man was in Eden before he sinned and was cast out when he sinned. The Garden of Eden was on the earth, not in heaven (its boundaries are given in Gen. 2: 8-14), therefore the casting out was not out of heaven, as believed of Satan. The Eden referred to here is a geographical place, as referenced and does not refer to a time.
Interestingly, A large cherub-sphinx with a king’s head and animal’s body set on a base of sculptured mountains was discovered in nearby Sidon, apparently a deification of a king of Tyre who is here described as being “upon the holy mountain of God” (Ez. 28:14). Phoenician and Ugaritic texts record the King of Tyre pronouncing that “I am El”- exactly what we read him doing in Ez. 28:2, proclaiming that “I am God, I sit in the seat of God”
I can find no reference to an angel falling in the above texts. Moreover, This person was to “die the deaths of the uncircumcised” (Ez. 28;10), but angels cannot die (Luke. 20:35-36). That a man is referred to is confirmed by v. 9: “thou shalt be a man...in the hand of him that slayeth thee”. Verse 2 defines him as none other than the “prince of Tyrus”.
According to misreadings of Ez. 28:15 "Thou wast perfect in thy ways till iniquity was found in thee" and John. 8:44 "the devil was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there was no truth in him", those who believe in a personal devil are faced with a contradiction- was the devil originally a sinner, from the beginning, or was he once perfect before this alleged fall? It cannot be both without a contradiction arising.
Can angels fall? Jesus taught the Lord’s Prayer, "…. Thy kingdom come, that thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”. But if the devil is against God, if the devil is not doing God's will, then he can't be in heaven because God's will is done in heaven.
Yahweh cannot behold evil in His presence. That which is against Gods’ will is evil. He cannot have any sinfulness in His presence; so the idea of there being some sinful forces up in heaven with God presents a problem for Christians that believe in a fallen angel.
In Job and Zachariah, we read of “The Satan”, the accuser or opponent or adversary, a member of Gods’ heavenly council. Here The Satan takes on the role of accuser, the Gerrie Nel of Gods court. Satan is definitely around Yahweh in these stories so therefore cannot be a ‘fallen’ angel.
God tells us in Isaiah, “I am Yahweh, and there is none else, there is no God - no source of power - beside me. I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and I create evil." This means that God is creating evil / disaster in this world. Now if God is all powerful, then we have to come to the conclusion that the god of this earth, which many Christians call the devil/Satan, is actually given power by God and that God actually enables that ‘fallen angel’ to do his work.
In the story of Job, God tells Job again and again, I have done these things to you; God never says Satan did it, or I allowed it to happen. If one reads 2 Sam. 24: 1 - “The Lord moved David against Israel" to take a census, and the parallel record of this verse, in 1 Chronicles 21: 1 - “Satan stood up against Israel" and provoked David to take a census. One cannot say that when you read the word “Satan” that it’s talking about some personal supernatural being of evil, because it says there quite clearly that it was God who was acting as the Satan in this particular instance. God was the adversary, or one must believe that a contradiction exists.
How is it then, that Christians can claim that Satan is somebody in opposition to God, or the negative/opposite of God?
The angels, says Heb. 1: 13 are all ministering spirits helping us to reach salvation. So all the angels it says are ministering spirits. It in no way says the good angels are helping you and the bad ones are trying to lead you astray. It says all of them are trying to help you to reach salvation. In 1 Cor. 5: 5, we are told that people could be delivered unto Satan that the spirit might be saved. 1 Tim. 1: 20: people were delivered to Satan that they might learn not to blaspheme.
In Luke 20: 35,36 it says that they which shall be accounted worthy to inherit the kingdom will not die because they are like the angels, they are equal unto the angels. Therefore angels can't die. If angels cannot die, they also cannot sin, because we are told in the bible that the wages of sin is death. If you sin, you have to die. Therefore, I would suggest that the devil cannot be a fallen angel. We are told in Heb. 2: 16 that Christ didn't come to save angels. They don't need salvation;
Furthermore, Hebrews 2: 14 says that Satan was actually destroyed by Christ on the cross. If this is actually so; what the hell is Satan still doing around according to many Christians?
One of the more popular verses used by Christians for evidence of this Satan myth is: Revelation 12: 7-9: “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him”.
In Revelation 1:1 and 4:1 –it clearly states that the Revelation is a prophecy of “things which must shortly come to pass”. It is not therefore a description of what happened in Eden, but a prophecy of things to happen at some time after the first century. Obviously this verse speaks of something else and not a literal war in heaven, because we are told “….Thy will be done, as it is in Heaven” Therefore nothing can happen in heaven against the will of an all-powerful God.
The verse reads that the serpent is cast out of heaven, implying it was originally there. But the literal serpent in Eden was created by God out of the dust of the earth (Gen. 1: 24-25) and was a beast. There is no implication that the devil came down from heaven and got inside the serpent.
Verse 10 says that there was “a loud voice saying in heaven, now is come salvation and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God, day and night”. If verses 7-9 occurred at the beginning of the world, before the time of Adam and Eve, how could it be said that after Satan’s fall there came salvation and the kingdom of God?
I believe Christians are confused about Satan. The bible does not support this Christian myth of a fallen angel. My question is a simple one.
Where did Christianity get their modern Christian Satan from, because I cannot find him?
Ref: http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/The-Satan-project-20140903
http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/The-Satan-project-II-20140923
