AS IT HAPPENED: 'ED is going down' phonecall reveals plans to get McBride out | News24

live

15 Apr 2019

Former IPID boss Robert McBride at the judicial commission of inquiry into state capture. (Jeanette Chabalala/News24)

WATCH LIVE | State Capture Inquiry

(Courtesy of SABC)

Last Updated

Live News Feed

Go to start

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry Proceedings will resume at 09:30 tomorrow when Zondo will hand down his decision on Moyane's application to cross-examine Gordhan. He says that may at 45 minutes. Thereafter, McBride will continue his evidence.
— Erin Bates (@ermbates) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry "There isn't anything wrong he [Sesoko] has done but we can find something wrong," says Pretorius while summarising an aspect of the call between Khomo and Mahlangu.
— Erin Bates (@ermbates) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

All is this a rouse to scupper IPID's investigation into Phahlane says McBride.

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry Regardless, says McBride, Khomo promises Mahlangu a promotion if he becomes a 204 witness even though Mahlangu indicates he does not know answers to relevant questions sent to him. McBride says Mahlangu will have to testify on the details, if it was innocent.
— Erin Bates (@ermbates) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

McBride says in the conversation "ED is going down" was referring to Executive Director- the position was held by Mcbride at the time. #StateCaptureInquiry
— State Capture Commission (@StateCaptureCom) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry Pretorius asks McBride what's the meaning of talk of a fellow going down mentioned in the recording of the call. "Mr Mahlangu asks Brigadier Khomo ask why would ED be going down?" says McBride. "ED was basically E for Executive, D for Director," says Zondo.
— Erin Bates (@ermbates) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

Brigadier Khomo was in charge of internal security but was discussing investigations so the conversation was improper, says McBride.Mahlangu and Kgomo discuss a post for Mahlangu.

He raises concerns of his lack of experience

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry McBride says while context is not clear in the recording, the contents are improper as jobs were just being offered.
— Black Feminist (@Gao_Phala) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

Mahlangu was an investigator for IPID and handled "sensitive investigations", says McBride.

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry McBride says while context is not clear in the recording, the contents are improper as jobs were just being offered.
— Black Feminist (@Gao_Phala) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

Adv Pretorius says the commission will arrange to have a testimony of one the witness in the second audio clip. McBride says the conversation may have took place in 2017. #StateCaptureInquiry
— State Capture Commission (@StateCaptureCom) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry The recordings was apparently made in 2018 shortly after McBrides return, in the recording you can hear Mahlangu says McBride is going down. McBride says they need to double check the date but in his memory it was 2018 but could have been 2017.
— Jacaranda News (@JacaNews) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

A recording between Hawks official Mahlangu and a Mr Kgomo.

15 Apr 2019

During his suspension three people from Crime Intelligence were hired permanently at IPID and moved when McBride returned to IPID.

15 Apr 2019

McBride says upon his return he asked for update from Kgamanyane but he did not receive handover report. He says Kgamanyane was then transferred to DCPI and there was no consultation with Ipid.#StateCaptureInquiry
— State Capture Commission (@StateCaptureCom) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

McBride lists Ipid officials who were moved during his suspension period. He says Kgamanyane said the instruction had come from the minister. #StateCaptureInquiry
— State Capture Commission (@StateCaptureCom) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

McBride says there was no rationale for people in critical positions being moved or removed from IPID.

He said the transfers immediately instilled fears.

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry McBride says Ntlemeza who was Deputy Commissioner of Police in Limpopo at the time, was interested in the rendition case in 2013.

Ntlemeza reportedly told Khuba to speed up the investigation into Dramat & Sibiya because it was holding back his progress.
— POWER987News (@POWER987News) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry McBride continues, "Ntlemeza was interested in the rendition investigation in 2013 already, before I arrived at Ipid." Pretorius notes that Khuba returned to Ipid following a Labour Court decision.
— Erin Bates (@ermbates) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry Proceedings resume. Pretorius refers to the transcript, including translations, of the telephone conversation played before the short adjournment. Pretorius says, in time, Khuba will provide direct evidence on the call.
— Erin Bates (@ermbates) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry There was a section in the call where Mahlangu advises Khuba to underline and emphasise a certain point and an instruction that he use a highlighter. Zondo stops to check on time. Pretorius says McBride won't conclude today.
— Erin Bates (@ermbates) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

In audio: Mr Sesoko tells Khuba that General Ntlemeza is his friend and will help him get his job back. Khuba is advised to act in the best interest of his friend. #StateCaptureInquiry
— State Capture Commission (@StateCaptureCom) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

McBride says after Khuba was dismissed, he was visited by officials of DPCI and promised a position if he implicates McBride in wrongdoing.
The commission will now hear the audio recording. #StateCaptureInquiry
— State Capture Commission (@StateCaptureCom) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

McBride says after Khuba was dismissed, he was visited by officials of DPCI and promised a position if he implicates McBride in wrongdoing.
The commission will now hear the audio recording. #StateCaptureInquiry
— State Capture Commission (@StateCaptureCom) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

McBride says after Dramat was suspended, Gen Ntlemeza indicated improved performance of DPCI and Ntlemeza was later replaced Dramat.
He says the same happened at SARS, the former commissioner Tom Moyane made the same claims on improvement.#StateCaptureInquiry
— State Capture Commission (@StateCaptureCom) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

McBride says IPID performance had not gone up under Kgamanyane.

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry McBride also adds that during his suspension, it was falsely reported that IPID's progress had improved, he says the practice was widespread across provinces.
— Jacaranda News (@JacaNews) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

Cases against Phahlane were closed due to duplication, says McBride.

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry McBride says he received a complaint from Mathews Sesoko that the AG had raised a concern with how cases were being handled. He references a case relating to general Kgomotso Phahlane. He says a duplicate of the case under a different case number was made
— Jacaranda News (@JacaNews) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

Decision on who will hear evidence relating to the findings of Zondo's brother will be decided amongst relevant parties.

McBride continues.

15 Apr 2019

Z: There is no evidence that should be heard that will not be heard, it's a question of who must hear it.

It is a very complex matter.

15 Apr 2019

DCJ Zondo propose that the commission continue to hear evidence linked to his younger brother, Adv Mxolisi Zondo. He indicated that submissions will be invited from legal bodies to make representations. #StateCaptureInquiry
— State Capture Commission (@StateCaptureCom) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry Pretorius says the situation as it relates to the Adv Mxolisi Zondo issue has become more complicated.
— POWER987News (@POWER987News) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

McBride says after his suspension, important information went missing. A suspect admitted involvement of torture which led to the death of a suspect. Fortunately a copy was made, the case resurfaced.

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry McBride says Ipid dealt with bribery allegations on the Panday case. "The case was supposed to be enrolled, and in fairness there was a request that the accused make representations"
— Jacaranda News (@JacaNews) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

Acting successor Kgamanyane requested for dockets relating to the Panday case which involved businessman Thoshan Panday in corruption linked to the 2010 World Cup. He adds that no prosecution in the Panday case took place.

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry McBride says the case of the renditions was discussed with the NPA's Mxolis Nxasana who also said there was nothing on Dramat and Sibiya.

McBride notes that Nxasana refused to speak to Werksmans on the matter in order to protect the independence of the NPA.
— POWER987News (@POWER987News) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

Z: As long as the hard copy given to NBA remained as was, it represented what has been given and had not been interfered with. McBride agrees.

M: There wasn't any untoward motive, the case in all its assets were discussed with Mr Nxasana.

15 Apr 2019

Z: Perhaps an understanding that there was a failure to include something that was in the first report?

M: To my knowledge and understanding, it was a conscious decision not to include anything of no evidentiary value.

15 Apr 2019

Pretorius reads out some of Khuba's concerns:

He was under pressure to produce report from NBA.

Denies any improper motives.

No attempt to exclude material evidence from report.

15 Apr 2019

M: When the minister requested all information, both reports were given, there was no attempts to mislead the minister by only giving one report, on 26 November 2014.

15 Apr 2019

Z: I'm trying to establish why Mr Khuba changed his view. Why did he go to first report physically and make alterations?

M: From the evidence, affidavit and engagement, the second report is an enhancement on the facts in the first report.

15 Apr 2019

McBride says he had no role to play in the first report.

15 Apr 2019

Z: Alterations of original report: did the first report physically look different in terms of what it contains before the alleged alterations?

M: There are a number of reports, things are added. By January, it's already had some evolution in it. I'm not sure what the minister means by the first report in the term of reference.

15 Apr 2019

We resume from lunch. Pretorius clarifies a few issues. Refers to analysis by Werksmans reports.

15 Apr 2019

Lunch adjournment. To resume at 14:00

15 Apr 2019

Upon his return, McBride speaks about changes to restructuring: At least 8 senior managers were affected. Some were transferred, others suspended, many had to fill gaps that were left. He says he had noticed a pattern of transfers and suspensions in the Hawks and SARS.

15 Apr 2019

#StateCaptureInquiry McBride had told Parliament that the rendition case cost the state R17 million. He has now also explained that he paid personally for all his court bids and the criminal case he had to fight in 2016. He was reimbursed for the ConCourt matter.
— POWER987News (@POWER987News) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

McBride says Israel Kgamanyane's first decision as the acting head of Ipid was to cancel the brief that Ipid challenge the minister's powers. #StateCaptureInquiry
— tiny tempeh (@SJohannaSmit) April 15, 2019

15 Apr 2019

P: You were suspended for what period?

M: 24 March 2015 and returned 19 October 2016 - approximately 18 months.

We live in a world where facts and fiction get blurred

Who we choose to trust can have a profound impact on our lives. Join thousands of devoted South Africans who look to News24 to bring them news they can trust every day. As we celebrate 25 years, become a News24 subscriber as we strive to keep you informed, inspired and empowered.

Join News24 today

Next on News24

WRAP | Today the ICJ has vindicated us, Israel's actions are genocidal - Ramaphosa

26 Jan