OVERVIEW: VBS Parliamentary debate - ANC wants 'to deal with corruption decisively'

Tobias takes the opportunity to address FF Plus MP Groenewald for his earlier comments, when he said the ANC should not be in government. Tobias addresses Groenewald in Afrikaans, and says he has no right to say that, says the apartheid government killed many people.

ANC MP Tobias follows Carrim.

Tobias: "I want the house to know that Shivambu did not want the bank to be placed under curatorship, but instead wanted us to meet the king."

Carrim says Shivambu must be heard. Carrim then turns to the EFF/DA alliances in some municipalities, says it "puzzles" him, "bemuses" him. 

Carrim: "There are these two parties, the DA and the EFF. They are in 'tactical alliances' if you want to call it that, in several municipalities... is there a more inconvenient, convenient alliance, anywhere in world history? They hate each other, they absolutely hate each other. Yet they love each other when it comes to the municipalities, right?"

Carrim: "So you people are attacking each other, yet you're working together - isn't that hypocrisy?" 

Carrim turns down a question, and says "we want to deal with corruption decisively, that's why we're having this debate". 

Carrim says whatever mistakes the ANC has made, they want to deal with corruption.

Carrim: "We as the ANC have often been accused of being tardy on allegations of corruption within our ranks. But we have acted very swiftly, this time." 

ANC chief whip Jackson Mthembu nods. 

"Let's have more of this decisiveness comrade chief whip," Carrim says in acknowledgment.

Van Damme: "If the DA was in government, corruption like the VBS, implicating the EFF, would result in 15 years in jail. When in national government, we will fight corruption, create fair access to jobs and make our police service honest and professional."

Van Damme: "We simply cannot trust this party's forensic investigative skills, who claim they've checked Shivambu's bank accounts and found no wrongdoing. It would be like asking Julius Malema to take a stand against the trade of illicit cigarettes."

Van Damme interrupted a number of times during her delivery. Shortly before being interrupted, Van Damme made comparisons between Jacob Zuma and his son Duduzane, and Floyd Shivambu and his brother Brian. 

EFF MPs rise on a point of order, and imply that they will call a meeting in Johannesburg very soon.

DA MP Phumzile van Damme now at the podium.

AGANG MP Tlouamma now at the podium. Rounds off by saying people must be arrested. "When I came here, I told my family that I'm going to exercise citizen arrest, and I was planning to arrest Honourable Floyd Shivambu today," he says, before leaving the podium.

EFF MPs call a point of order.

ANC MP and Deputy Minister of Finance Mondli Gungubele now at the podium.

"Many things have been said in the public domain, but little is based on the facts before us."

Maynier calls for an independent inquiry into what happened at VBS after the warning from Treasury. 

Maynier says that despite the report saying the looting was hidden from view, "the fact that VBS was taking illegal deposits from municipalities was known and was in the public domain from at least the 14th of October 2016, which is more than a year before VBS Mutual Bank was placed under curatorship".

Maynier refers to Malema as the "commander in thief", but is requested to withdraw it after objections from EFF MPs.

Lekota says that all those found responsible should be dealt with, before he is reminded that his time has run out.

Up next is ACDP MP Steve Swart, followed by DA MP David Maynier.

Lekota says the ANC must have known what was going on at the bank, calls on the people to vote different men and women into government so they can clean the "rubbish" this government has created.

Lekota says the ANC requesting the debate on the VBS bank report reeks of "hypocrisy", says all the municipalities that invested in VBS are led by the ANC, and Lekota also alludes to the fact that when former president Jacob Zuma was ordered to "pay back the money" in the Nkandla matter, they went to VBS for a loan.

Groenewald leaves the podium without having withdrawn his comment, and he says he will do so with "honour". He makes way for Cope leader Mosiuoa Lekota.

EFF MP Gardee demands that Groenewald withdraw the "Mickey Mouse" comment. Says if he wishes to trade insults, he will lose. Gardee says "We will come there for him now, we don't fear him..." before his mic is cut off.

Some back and forth between Groenewald, EFF MPs, and the speaker.

Groenewald continues: "At least, honourable chair, South Africa now knows that the leader of the EFF is nothing else than a Mickey Mouse commander-in-chief..."

FF Plus MP Groenewald at the podium, and starts off by saying, "What actually should have never happened, is that the ANC should have never become the government of South Africa..." 

His fellow MPs are riled up.

He continues: "...because you as the government, has set the example of corruption, you have set the example of how to steal the money from the taxpayer. And now we see that the community in itself, they even steal from the poor." 

Shaik Emam says that Brian Shivambu was an ordinary person with a spaza shop, who received millions, and then the money also went to his brother's account. 

Shaik Emam mentions that the Hawks and police are right outside and should start by arresting people now. His time is cut short.

The stand-in speaker has had to call for order a number of times. 

Shaik Emam returns to the podium, says everybody must be treated equally before the law. 

Shaik Emam: "The amount of money that was taken away, and that in terms of what I have identified and established in terms of the reports, a very great percentage of that went to a particular person, by the name of Brian Shivambu."

NFP MP Shaik Emam now at the podium, but has been interrupted by a number of MPs during his address.

Mkhize says there shouldn't be any excuses when dealing with the VBS matter, says that a sense of justification for what has happened cannot be created.

ANC MP and Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs Zweli Mkhize now at the podium.

IFP MP Hlengwa at the podium. Says every single cent lost in the VBS saga must be recovered and paid back to the poor who have been robbed. 

Hlengwa: "The people who stole the money must simply go to jail. It is theft, and they must be punished."